The Power We Hold Podcast S01 Ep10: Heather of Allegorie, a food-waste leather accessories company

Thank you for joining me, your host and eco-visual artist Vanessa Albury, on my journey to becoming a better ally to people of all diversities (bipoc, LGBTQAI2S+, non-normative brained and embodied +) and steward of the environment in podcast form as The Power We Hold! This is part of my Coral Projects' work in eco-consciousness healing. My co-host, Caleb Williams, is also an artist. She is 21 years my junior and makes art about her experience as a Black woman in America. We have in-depth conversation together and with others about difficult topics full of love and healing.

Today Caleb and I chat with Heather Jiang of Allegorie, the food-waste-based leathers accessories company. I bought my cactus-waste leather wallet from Heather in 2020 and have loved every minute of having it. Heather is a powerful eco-advocate. She uses her creative mind and business savvy to solve the problem of sustainable, well-designed, and high quality leather made from waste! How cool is that?! Please check out Allegories, get your wallet or bag, or both! If you are in NYC Heather is at outdoor fairs all season with a regular spot at Grand Bazaar on Columbus at W77th Street. See for yourself why I'm so in love with her products!

What eco-problems do you have the skill set to solve and love what you're doing at the same time?

recorded March 26, 2023 in Brooklyn, NY

Notes:
Allegorie IG, website

Show Notes:
 The Power We Hold Podcast IG, website
Vanessa Albury IG, website
Coral Projects IG, website + Make a tax-deductible donation
Caleb Williams IG, website

Music Clear Skys by Wael Elhalaby IG, Soundcloud
Audio Editing by Bryan Klausing Rain Junkies website, LinkedIn

Coral Projects in Italy + Hyperallergic

Transcript

Welcome back to the Power We Hold Podcast. I'm Vanessa Albury, your host. I am looking forward to this episode very much. I love the company that we're featuring today, Allegorie.  

Heather, the owner of the company is with us. And they make food waste leather. This is eco-friendly leather. I have a wallet. I love it and we'll talk all about that in the episode with Caleb. But before we get into that, I wanted to share two things. One is an experience that I just had on the subway here in New York City and it was an embodied learning for me. What I mean by that is, you know, you can learn something. 

When you read it, you can learn something that because somebody tells it to you. But when you have an experience, you learn it in your body and that's a different kind of knowledge. And what I learned is that it just takes one or two people to do things a little differently, to transform and free, truly free. The entire collective. Here's what happened. I was taking the subway home from the movies I saw Ant Man and the Wasp was really good. Lots of great underwater imagery. I appreciated that nod to sea life. And I was one stop away from my stop. When the rain stopped in the station, it had opened the doors closed and started to pull out of the station and then stopped and we sat there for about half an hour. 

Normally when a subway car is stopped at the station, the conductor will leave the doors open so people can come and go. It's the humane thing to do. But because we had moved a little, the conductor was refusing to open the doors. And in fact, people had gone up to the conductor, like knocked on the door to the conductor's area and asked for the doors to be opened and were denied. So people started to try to pry the doors open. And when that didn't work, this guy went to the area between the cars and there's a gate, you can just like move the gate over. And then there are these three kind of bungee-spring-like metal parts that he just crawled through and got onto the platform.

So when he did that, I was like, oh, that's genius. And I did it too. Another guy followed me and we're leaving the station and I yelled up to the guy, you know, you're a genius. Thank you for freeing us. And then I went to the station manager and I was telling him the story because that's inhumane to have people trapped in a car when it's perfectly safe to open the doors and let everyone out and let people choose if they want to sit and wait or if they wanna, you know, take another mode of transportation to wherever they're going. And of course, I was only one stop from my house. So, I was really b med to be sitting on that car in that subway car. So as I'm talking to the station manager, I know I notice a bunch of people pouring out of the subway station and I realize that they had opened the doors and it dawned on me in that moment they did that because people started to escape the way that I did and the man that had set the pattern for us to do so before I did, had he not done that? They, they might not have opened the doors. At least not yet. And I thought that was very telling because truly and just like what Heather's doing, making leather out of food waste, using every scrap of what's available to make a product that ever body needs that can replace a very un eco-friendly product that currently exists. It just takes one or two people doing things just a little differently to transform the experience for everybody. We don't think that's how it is. Like we think it's like a 1-to-1 kind of thing. But no, it's exponential. 

When one person makes a shift, it opens the eyes, of everyone around them to make a shift as well. 

And I’ll take it a step further. I don't think that you have to witness that change. You can just be alive at the same time and feel that shift in the collective. This is an energetic change. This is information that passes through the super conscious of humanity, right? You have the conscious mind, the subconscious mind and the super conscious mind. And so I would love for everybody to think about, and I know we all at these pings throughout our day, why I shouldn't do that? Or it's not safe or I have fear. 

But I want everyone to think about, where can I make a shift in my life that will free me and might in fact, then free everyone and you don't need to think that second thought, it might free everyone because that's already inherent to when you free yourself, you inevitably create the open door for everyone else to move through as well.

Via again, via watching you do it via observing. You do it being, hearing, you hear it, hearing about you doing it or just being in proximity to you energetically this is something that people fight with themselves about when they consider going eco friendly.

Right. They're like, well, I'm just one person. What, what does my action matter? Right. Or like, it's just one more plastic bottle, you know, what does that really matter, or, you know, plastic straws? Well, it, you know, it's just one little drop in the hat of all the plastic, but there. Like, why should I do a paper straw when you know, it's not that big of a difference, but just because it's apparently quantifiable, not a big difference, doesn’t mean that it's not actually exponentially a huge difference in collective consciousness which then shifts the entire collective action. Arguably that switch that most of the world made from plastic straws to paper straws brought eco-friendly consciousness into the collective awareness at the next level that is valuable. It doesn't matter so much that one sea turtle doesn't have a plastic straw up its nose anymore. And that's a devastating image to see. And it was a very good motivator for many of us. But, but it's really about how do we move the needle and some of those movements come from some of the great movements of the needle come from just one person doing things differently. This is why stories of activists like Rosa Parks are so powerful and actually Rosa Parks was not actually the first woman to make that action, there was somebody else, but she was placed as a key player for who she is or who she was as an identity because of the role that she could play in making that action. So that was very strategic actually. And, and very brilliant. 

But yeah, so it's, it's not about, oh, this one little thing isn't gonna make that big of a difference. It's how are you shifting your mindset? How are you shifting the mindset of the whole world when you shift your mindset and you shift your action, that's why I love bamboo toilet paper and, and I promote it to everyone and also bring your own bottle, you know, bring your own like drinking bottle for water. And also why I love Heather's wallet. The Allegorie wallet that I have, I have the cactus one. Because every time I get my wallet out, I am reminded, if not on the conscious let el, at least on the subconscious level that I made a choice, I made a choice to pay a little bit more to buy a very well made alternative to leather wallet that is eco-friendly and reuses waste instead of putting it back into the landfills and back into the system, it was something that, that was reused upcycled. 

So yeah, I'd really like us all to think about how we can support the whole world via supporting ourselves and making actions that are aligned with who we really are looking at the fear that comes up and embracing it because fear is your guidepost. Fear is a light in the dark, showing you the path. It's showing you your path to your growth. So what you do is you say hello? Fear. Thank you. Thank you for showing up. I love you. I appreciate you. You are the best of me and then go do it anyway. Yeah, I hope that everybody can take one action towards their own freedom from societal programming, from inner child wounds, from whatever is holding you back from doing what you know, that you really want to be doing that little voice. That's like, oh, well, you could do it but nobody else is doing it or why do you think you'll be good at it or, you know, are you sure that's a good idea. We don't need that voice. Just thank you for showing up. Thank you for saying your piece. I'm driving this car. We're going to do it anyway. And the second thing I wanted to share with you is that we are making a feature linked documentary film of the sighting of coral Project's first permanent site, which is very near the temporary site that I placed in August in Southern Italy. The site is in southern Italy also in a marine protected region. I'II talk more about that in a future podcast. 

But I just wanted to let you know that we are fundraising for this documentary, we start filming hopefully in April. And then go in July to Italy to make this first permanent site. And the film is follows the writing of this first permanent work as well as key interviews with eco-friendly artists, with spiritual leaders, like master She was talking about the healing powers of water and of shifting our collective relationship to the waters and the whole planet to nature and also marine scientists.

Well, at the end of the film show, an animation of what where I see the project going like for this site in Southern Italy, but also for future sites around the world. So if you would like to contribute to the documentary, please follow the link in the show notes. We have a fiscal sponsor. All donations are tax deductible via that fiscal sponsor. So, you know, be generous as generous as you can and you can also give me a direct donation if you want to go that route for tax deduction. 

And a third way to support us is via the fundraiser that Allegorie is creating for coral projects during Earth month, which is April. So that should be now, I'm recording this in March, but that will be now when you're listening to it. So there will be a link in the show notes there. And yeah, I'm just so so honored to host this podcast to create choral projects and to be alive now and learning. I, I love that experience I had on the subway today. Yes, I did not enjoy sitting on the train for half an hour wondering when I was going to be able to get home, but I appreciate it now and I'm learning to in those difficult moments, appreciate them while I'm in them. That's when, you know, you've really gotten somewhere when you can have a very difficult experience and be grateful for it at the same time to me, that's power. So without further ado, please enjoy our conversation with Heather of Allegorie and check out their products via the link in the show notes. They make beautiful wallets, bags and more accessories are in the pipeline. The stuff is, is gorgeous, high quality and I couldn't recommend it to you more highly. OK?

Speak to you soon. All right. Welcome back to the Power We Hold Podcast. I'm Vanessa Albury, your host, my co-host Caleb Williams. Hi. We have a special guest, Heather from the Thank you for having me today so much for being here with us. I'm so excited about having you on because I love your products. I'm very excited to you today. Thank you so much for inviting me before we get into it. Can you tell our audience just like your background, like who you are your cultural background, who you are in this world so that they have a context for understanding. Yeah, of course. So my name is Heather. I am the co-founder of all, a New York based is a sustainable fashion accessory company where we turn excess food and especially fruits into fashion accessories.

So or bags are made from apples, cactus mangoes and we have some, you know, new stuff that's in the pipeline which I cannet disclose right now. 1e, myselt, I, I'm a first generation immigrant and I moved to New York City about 67 years ago. I was a finance professional, but, you know, as my experience grow in that industry, I realized I wanted to do something different. And then | met my co-founder. We both shared this passion for, you know, trying to reduce food waste, you know, something, it's just we are very interested in and trying to figure out a way to do it. And I also in my professional world, I used to work with a lot of boutique designers and all of that. And I found that this could be a path to combine the food waste with fashion accessories, especially everyday purpose, fashion accessories. That's how Allegorie  was born. Wow. So many questions like I was like, oh, we answer any questions. Do you want to ask your first? Yeah, I ask my first question as somebody that is working with sustainable products and that's like kind of like the ultimate goal to like push that into society through, you know, your products, your bags and the stuff, different stuff you have. How do you try and stay, I don't know if you, well, do you try and stay on trend with things that are like coming to fold and like years to come or how do you navigate with that? Yeah, that's my first question. Yeah, I think there, there's  definitely that sweet point, right Where the innovation and pras come together. 

So at all, one thing, one thing when we come to any product development is that if it's not going to be better than what's already existing in the market, it's not gonna work from a sustainability angle, from a practical angle, it's just not going to work, right? You can have something that is like let's say zero waste, you know, like a zero footprint or whatsoever. But if it just breaks in one day, then it's not gonna work, right? It, if you think about the long term, it has to be a commercially available cons er facing product that through that you can actually move the whole industry to a more sustainable future. So something something more experimental is not what we're after. We're after Something that's actually more customer ready and actually works if not better, but as the same good as what's investing in the market. I love that is it's reminding me of this ig post by climate diva I think is an amazing h an and she is she puts out a lot of good education but she did like a ranking of most sustainable leather and little leather alternatives. 

And she put food-based leather as like second or third from the best, best being like finding something from will. And yeah, that's really hard. But she was talking also about like the the water savings leather from animal hide. It takes a lot of water. There's a lot of water waste and also toxic to. Yeah. So like wrap that question or those thoughts into also the question of was it difficult to find AAA manufacturer for the food base leather? Yeah, I think definitely there are a lot of difficulties when it comes to this relatively new materials and all of that. So couple of challenges just to name a few actually. So first, not every factory is equipped to basically convert right, the fibers into the fabric in a sustainable way since we are already reducing food way, we want to make sure that the process is as sustainable as possible. 

So for example, when it comes to water, the current manufacturer, we work with the water is actually recycled over and over again just to be reused. So, so eventually it may be discharged, but we make sure there is no like a toxic chemicals or anything that's been released to the environment combined with, you know, renewable energy usage and all of that just trying to be assessed as possible. So that's and but when, when it comes to this, that means the process is not going to be as cheap as some of the more common practices, right? And this baked into the eventual price and the cost we have to work with. another thing is that so for example, the material I have a back here feel things. Yeah, so you can feel it.

And for a lot of customers they will think, oh, this is just feels like leather and all of that. However, it's absolutely not leather in terms of like leather, it's animal, animal protein and fiber and this is a plant fiber. and we, we, we also added the lining materials and all of that, but they're not animal protein there. So the the traditional way of working with the leather, a lot of like, you know, doing a lot of like folding and all that does not work with this material, which means a lot of design you are used to see in the leather bag. It's just not going to work. It's not, it does not mean this material is not as good as leather. It just means you have to work with it. And exactly. 

So when we were looking for bag manufacturers and all that, some of them just don't want to work with us because it means it means using different machineries, it means like their whole process needs to change in the way they work with it. So that's hard too basically. So yeah, and then we are dealing with which, which is very unique because there are natural materials involved. So depending on the batch, right, the acidity level is different, the sugar level is different. So every batch, there's a little bit of a difference and we have to kind of adjust it a little bit there in.  , here. So these are all the things that baked into the whole manufacturing process.  , but I'm very happy as you guys can see. And the results are really. So my question, I have a quick question when it comes. Do you yourself like collect like the, the fiber material? And then do you ship it off ko the man? For example, the cactus material, we actually work with the company that's called deer. I pronounce it wrong. I don't speak Spanish. Sorry. Excuse me for that. 

But, yeah, so they are in Mexican based and all the cactus they,  , it's no, no cactus that's sustainably farmed. It's part of the, as a food resource in Mexico and any scrap material leftover basically are used for making this material and we just get that from them.  , when it comes to Apple, currently, we are working with the labs that is, this is Apple. Yes, that one is apple.  , we're working with the labs that's based in Japan and Italy where they are just closer to the apple orchard and also juice factories. So yeah, so this, when, when, when it comes to this natural materials, right? You, you, ya pretty much have to be closer to where, where it is. And then the rest is all here in New York City. So is the company are like, was the company already making leather out of the cactus they or you contacted them or is this like, oh, or the partnership? 

So there are many different ways when it comes to this, for example, they are more independent. They actually already, I think they're working with a couple of luxury brands about the testing things out, out and all that and the apples, we actually work with the lab to figure out what our formula is in terms of. because funny thing when it comes to this is that the, let's say the texture or the, the playability, the strength that's needed for your end product depends, right? So you kind of can work with the lab of like, OK, this is what I need and this is like, so you kind of can work with them to figure out what works and what's not. 

We also have a mango collection and that's a fruit Leather Rotterdam where they collect mango there. And then we we work very closely with them because they don't they don't know anything about making bags. So like that's a more closer kind of working together to basically make sure, OK, whatever they create a sheet of, you know, 1 m by 1 m coming out, how can that be transformed into a bag? Right? So that's a more closer kind of partnership. That's why I was sniffing this apple in because the mango and smells, I was gonna say I was gonna ask like, do they smell like the fruits that you make it out of and stuff like that?

Also, I had a question about like in regards to the business side, when you're creating these products, who is your target cons er) br do you not have one or like or even even if you have one, is it like still to educate people on this is where we should be moving to towards as a community as a country like, yeah, that's a very good question. So I think we don't have a very niche targeted customer base because I truly believe this material is for everyone. because there are brands that's out there. Oh, we are targeted at, we're targeting at, you know, like Il I get it. But I think again, if you look at our products, you will see this is for everyone. Like if there is a a better solution out there, right? And that functions just as your usual wallet just as your usual bags.

Why not why not? Right, try it out. And also honestly we have a lot of  , customers are guys and they, they love buying our products because they think that's a very nice icebreaker on first date, like how eco I am. Yeah, but so that's what I'm saying is I think, you know, obviously we are looking at customers who at least are interested right in this, in this whole topic about protecting the environment, you know, be a little bit more conscious about what I purchased, right? But I think a lot of more education is needed, obviously, because I think there, there's still a lack of definition on what exactly is sustainable when it comes to business practices. And, and I think there's a reason for that because depending on your goal or what your outcome, you're trying to get to your approach to sustainability can change. Really? One of the conversations I had very early on when we started the company is, oh, is Peta Certified a good sign for sustainability and all of that, I'm like, well depend on how you look at it, right? If you're looking for pure vegan material and all of that as, as, as a standard or are you looking for, you know, like a less resources used or something like it, depending on what you're looking at approved, it can be a good one or it can be irrelevant. 

Actually, it, It's a perfect parallel to the journey it takes to go green in your personal life. It's like, you know, maybe you used to drive to work every day but you could bike. So then you start biking and then, you know, maybe you used to always get take out and then you start bringing your own bamboo, you know, and that, you know, and then it's like, and then the next layer and the next layer of greener and greener, greener and now you're no longer buying, take out, you're buying organic food from the grocery store and then you're buying organic foods from the farmers' market and then you become a farmer. Yeah, they're like fire or anything. It's about those small changes because like, I think I, I totally get that sentiment right now. 

A lot of consumers are like, oh no, but the companies because if you think about it true, right? On an industrial level, that's where most of the pollution, most of the waste can come from. So sometimes II I see there are   customers out there. They'll be like, oh what am I doing then trying to minimize my ow waste. How is that? How is that going to change the whole picture and all that? But I think, but I think you also heed to think about it. Yes, maybe you change just 1% of what you do. But if everybody in this world will change 1% of what they do, that's still a lot, that still makes & big difference. Right. So I think there's no need to be, to be stingy with. Exactly. Exactly. Just do what, what, what the best you can do. And I totally understand, I think there also comes with right now, if you look at the so called ethical sustainable products out there, there's usually a price premium to it. 

There are many reasons why it is. but I totally understand, you know, especially we are right now in a very high inflation environment and all of that. So it's tough, but I think just do your best, right? Like it's like what is cost, right? There's like there's the money you pay, but then there's the cost of that cow that was farting all day to make the, you know, to make the leather of the wallet that you bought that cost you $20 less than this wallet because actually these are not that expensive for how well they're made and we'll have to get into that. But there's also what I like to think about the spiritual cost. You know, when you're, when you're not aligning your life and your body and your words and your thoughts and your actions to who you know, you really are, which is a loving h an who's aligned with the planet in a holistic way. Every time you defer from that choice, you hurt yourself on the inside and that's a cost that money cannot buy.

True. Yes. Yes. That's, that's one of my soapboxes. That's funny. My boss says that. So, so, but I was thinking about what you were saying about like how you go from like farmers market to farming. Like my dad's like that, like he made his, like, set up his own garden in our backyard and grows like all these fruits and vegetables and all this stuff. And like, even with me, with my own brand, like, I start off with like a manufacturer and buying like bulk orders but now it's thrifted. Everything I do is thrifted and then I design it afterwards and it's like that just makes me feel so much better going out and picking out these clothing and then people are in love with it because it's like you add another design to and they're like, OK, like, I love this, like, it's different. 

It's one of one and it's like, yeah, but you don't know that, you know, we're saving the planet while we're doing this, you know. So I think it's all like a beautiful thing to what you said abc t, like, you wind up hurting yourself in the end because you're hurting the planet that you live on. It's just like a whole, it's a whole thing. Yeah, I think it's one of the most, I think moving like the philosophy I, l've heard and all that, that, yes, it's sometimes it's, it's easy to distance yourself from the environment. Right. It, it, it, when people talk or, yeah. And maybe it's, it's a very abstract idea out there. You know, I, I'm still going out every day. I go to the store. All the products I like are still there. I can just grab them very conveniently. I can go home watch my Netflix and it, it, it's very easy to distance itself. 

But I think if you start to think about, let's say your kids, your grandkids, right? Like what a world what they are |facing and all of that, it it really start to impact you when you make a lot of choices. So let's talk about how beautiful these effects are that we have. Yeah, let's describe what we're. So I'm holding cactus folded cactus wallet beautiful. Like what we call this like a forest green. It's dyed with a natural cactus, a natural cactus color green and then the lining, that's our lining material. This is a sea gas color lining. We source our lining materials domestically in USA and this batch, this one, it's a combination of plant based material and also upcycled polyester. So plant based part that's actually the inedible part of crops. So think about the sugar cane corn, those you know, after harvesting. 

So some parts goes to h an for h an consumption, some parts goes to stock, to feed animals. The last part that is nobody can digest it, right. Usually they get burned which is terrible for the environment, but they have the strongest of fiber. So that part of the fiber is harvested great use and then mixed with a little bit recycled polyester to make it feel very velvety and very luxurious. I mean, it really been rubbing it this whole time like that. So I have the same of the style that you're holding in these materials. And I bought, yeah, 2.5 years ago now artisan learn you. and I just fell in love with your product so hard in that moment. I was like, I'm gone, I'm gone. But it, it was actually, you know, yes, a little more expensive than something! could have bought similar at J Crew for example. But every time I pull my money out, I'm like I did something good. You know, also I'm glad I'm glad it's, it's also so beautiful and I tell people about it just like, yeah, I'm not like trying) to get dates through it. But but you know, it's, people are kind of mind blown when they're like, that was made out of what and it works so well. And my wallet is like, it looks like you put a lot in. I bought it, it looks the same like it's in great condition like it really up. I'm very happy. 

Nothing makes me happier than, you know, a happy customer. We've been in different pop ups around the New York City for about like two, almost three years now. since like the middle after the pandemic kind of shutdown stopped. So it's starting to like, I got returning customers coming back to my booth and they were so excited that, oh, I bought this from you like, you know, a month ago or I bought this from you last year. Look, look, it still like, look like this. 

And I was like, yeah, care of the bag. But I think it speaks to like a cons er who is like, well, I know how leather behaves because I see leather for how many hundreds of years, but I don't know how food leather behaves but you do, but we don't. So we're learning. Yeah, I think when it comes to this type of new materials and one thing I learned at the very beginning of our this business venture is that you know, we do have a website that was sold directly to cons er. But when people saw it on our website of all this is made from apples or caps and mangoes are like, what do you mean like they have a reference point of? Oh, then what, what should I expect it to feel like? What? Right. So we got a lot of questions including is it edible? Like does it dissolve? And I like underwear like that?

Can I carry it in the ring? Because yeah, and I think that's all very legate questions, right? But then since we, we were able to, you know, do pop up events and all of that and people actually put there, they actually feel and touch the material and all of that they suddenly realize, oh my God, this feels so good. I can't believe it. And all of that. Yeah. Oh, and let's talk about that one. Yeah, the one you're holding that, that one is apple. So a card holder of that size, each of them depending on the batch but each of them up cycles about 25 apples worth of fibers in there. So it's very dense. Yeah, it's beautiful. I love like the multi color aspect of it and like just like the cuts and I'm like, keep putting my fingers in all of these. 

But I'm like this is another whole area for my car and another one like it's so beautiful and like just the way it feels is this from here, this area to this area was this all the same just like, I guess, pressed differently and then dyed with a different color and the the dusty rose color in the middle, you see there would also embossed a little bit of a texture just to show the versatility of the, of the material. the lighting material is the same as the other one. So they all, they all have that velvety fill and the one thing I do want to highlight is that because we're a minim  waste, you know, reducing food waste company. So whenever we do designs, we're actually minimizing the waste of the material itself. So all the cuts, we do minim , minim  waste basically. So they are all basically fully utilized. 

And that's tough, like I'm not a I, I didn't study design, you know, in college or anything. But when we started this, you know, by talking to designers and talking to manufacturers and all of all of that and also in terms of how this material turn out in terms of how big a sheet or a row it is, right? A lot of, a lot of that actually dictates what our design can be. So there are a lot of times where people I have friends like, oh can you make this shape of bag? Can you do this and that I'm like, yes I can. But that, that's kind of against our value because if you think about that design, there's just a lot of ways that will come out from that just like a circle on me where exactly. So there's a lot of those that actually dictates what type of style we go for. I just want to highlight that I was kind of hoping to see I saw on your Instagram, you had the wooden box back on your Instagram, my wooden box bag. 

Yeah, it was with your interview with Allure. I believe that I saw on your Instagram, I don't think I have. Ok, let me check on the while you're looking that up. Tell us how you came up with the name because it's the French spelling even though I cannot.  , but it's just for me,  , a lot of,  , my inspiration in terms of the color combination and all of that.  , it does come from a little bit of a French style and all of that. One thing I found very interesting and I personally like to travel to France, you know, many, many times, is the how just basic style like they have there? 

That is just like, and you never feel like they are just out of fashion because everybody knows it. But like if you, if you closely examine what they wear, it's all basic stuff. And that's the part of the inspiration here is that I think a big part of approaching sustainability in our own lifestyle is to stick, not, not to stick with the basics, but to understand that there is a reason why certain design they are classic, which means it's Timeless. Like it doesn't matter what age you are, what, what, what occasion it is, you can use this design for all of that. And that really just reduces the need for a bigger closet or buying more stuff and more stuff. So, that's a part of that Yeah. Yeah. So I love it. Did you find it? 

So I did find the Image but I think what happened was when I clicked on the image as you can see the tag for your company went straight under this one. So I was like, oh my God, like they do that too. It was the wrong, it's right next to it. But I was just like, so she was like, oh my God, she does that too. I like that. My belly. I wish I could. Yeah. Yeah. So no. but, but yes, so we recently got features on Vanity Fair, which is like a very good thing for us. Yeah, very excited about it. Yeah. What are your plans for the company like that? You can’t share secrets. So, this year I'm doing collaborations with a couple of independent designers in different categories where as an approach for our minim  waste. 

So even though, you know, like I mentioned our design, we're trying to minimize the waste of the fact fabrics and all of that, there are still some of them and we're trying to figure but the innovative ways to turn those into beautiful products and still, you know, following our brand and all of that. So they're coming very soon and there's also personal projects I have where I use the, the scrap materials and turn them into cards and they're so cute. Yeah, it's coming very soon and we're gonna do this with Coral Projects together and doing a fund raise. So please stay tuned with us. 

The first month, April Earth month for this year. So again, the idea is really since all these beautiful inters you, right, like they, they, they, they, they, they cons e some resources to, you know, to be where they are right how. I think the idea of minimize the waste there and transform them into something beautiful. And you know, and that actually bring joy to people is, is just very, very important part of that. And I, I don't think ally as a brand should limit ourselves in terms of what we make because it's more about the lifestyle than the product itself. Do you have any like upcoming pop ups that are coming up that people can put on their radar? 

Yes. Yes. So we are coming back to pop ups starting at the end of March the last Sunday of March at Grand Bazaar in Upper West Side. And we're gonna be there for a couple of the events and I think he street fair will come back at least towards the end of April or early May, will be there and we will just rotate again among all these pop up events in the city. So the best thing is to just follow us on Instagram or subscribe to our emails because we always send out alerts. We'll put links to that in the show notes for sure. And what about people in Middle America? Also, our listeners are International. We have listeners in in, in Dubai, in South Africa, in Canada, in Asia, in South America. So I know you sell online but are there also like physical locations a.id other places that maybe you all expanded to? 

So right now, we are mostly online selling through our own website. We are in a couple of other platforms, sustainable ethical products platforms that help us also sell in United States to get Canada. 

 We are also on Wolf and Badger, which is a independent boutique brand platform that through them, we can sell pretty much to where in the world. So definitely check it out in in the US. Some of our products are also available in boutique stores. There is a shop Minch in Savannah. There is the Paul store in old town in Philadelphia. Our products is also available at the Designer Club in Williamsburg. So stop by and if you're in Philadelphia or Savannah, please definitely stop by and check out those stores, you must be so busy. Like I'm just thinking like there's you and your co owner. Yes, and that's it. That's your team. We are a very small team. So we work. obviously we have like you know, a team of, you know, professionals that we just work on a ongoing basis. But yes, the core team is just my co-founder and me, I mean, as, you know, like coordinating all that stuff is just a lot. I just recently, maybe a year ago just started working with a production team and it's crazy because they're so young, they're still in college and they started a production agency and I before starting it on mv own. Yeah. Very busy running around like a chicken. had time to get everything done. 

 So the fact that you have like all these different shops and online resources that you're able to sell yourself through is amazing. Thank you. Thank you. We try very hard. There are days where I'm just like I do not even want to, I do not even want to look at it and all that. And I told my husband that no, lI, I need a me day sometimes. But, but we try very hard and I think one thing very interesting is that because we try to keep everything as local as possible. The fact that I, I just, I work with a manufacturer here in New York City. 

He is located actually in Long Island City. I think that's a big, big advantage of working with local partnerships is that it's almost like you're talking on the same wavelength type of situation where I, whenever we need a new product, we we're doing a new product development or something. I just literally sit in his office basically of like talking directly with him and then we're testing things but, we're doing this and that and then like, it's, it's, it's very efficient in that way. And I think it's also there is a mutual understanding, right? We are actually helping each other as businesses and all of that, which is actually very beautiful and this is something I want to say about all the independent business we ran into in the pop events such as Street Flair Point terminal market and all artists and fleece all those vendors. I've met fantastic people. There's no such thing as like a gate keeping. 

When it comes to this, they will be like, oh, have you tried this one? You should try this 10, have you worked with this? Oh, I actually recently knew this person and they, they were just like everybody is very, as local businesses. They're actually very eager to share their resources because they know the struggle. So they want to help, which is very, very amazing. It's like it's that it's that passion for what you're doing that makes your work actually just living your life, right? And it's like when you love what you do, you just want to tell everybody about the good stuff that you found and it's going to help them do their good stuff better. And this is how artists work and I mean, designers process, I was going to say, I guess my last question before time, but where is your inspo would come from, like as a designer? 

And then also, do you feel like living in New York City? Like also adds to how you design, how you create, how you think of things? Yeah, I think living in New York City definitely is a major, major plus when it comes to finding inspirations because this is such a diverse city. And one thing I, I really like people walking, you know, you could just sit in a cafe and just start looking at all the fabulous people walking, passing by and all that. It's like, and my drive is like, I want to find something, I want to design something that just looks good on all of them and like, it doesn't matter like what their style is, but this fits, this fits into it and it, it, it does not just fit it also elevates and then also so they will feel good wearing it because it's very sustainable. So that's a part of like how I figure like what we can do and all of that. And there are a lot of   testing actually of like whenever we come up with a sew shape or something and, and the, the community here, they're just, oh, yeah, let me try it on, let me see. And they are not shy, you know, from giving you feedback. Let's just say that. 

And those, no, this does not work this one. No, no, no, it does not. Like if I'm going on and then part of that is also a lot of people on public transport here, right? So a lot of our design is focused on that is like it helps you be mobile, right? You need to carry a lot or you need a lot of different pockets or you need it to be very compact that force you to make sure you just have a white meat keystone wallet, eco wallet and eco bag. Exactly. Eco case. Exactly. So it's, it's a lot of that. So I think it's a long way to say we, we, we really focus on functionality and also it's just, it's for everybody. I love that. It's for everybody. Do you find that when with your designs people are like, it's cute but I had it here. I, you know, the best part for me is like just having the conversations about what my brand is about because ifs so art driven rather than the actual like clothing. Like I do think about the clothing and the design and what I want to place it on, but the art is what really drives it. So I guess that I do get that from my mom. I do. She'll be like, but what about my age group? 

And I'm like, y'all can wear it too. She's like, yeah, you need to put us in the photo shoots too. And I'm like, ok, come on, I'm totally down for all that. So, yeah, that's kind of where that comes from. I totally see the shoe and it's like 30 people and all age groups. I would love to do that. That would be, I would, I do that. I would love to have; I would love to have everybody in like that. That's kind of the difficult part when it comes to drifting; it has to be based on the size. So like I'll do, I’ll have a collection of like to put out. But then once the orders come in, I have to then search for that size. So that's kind of where I'm in. Like, I love doing this because I know what it's helping with. But also this is so hard, you know, it's work to be like going through all the clothes going to multiple thrift stores, you know. So, I mean, I've been doing it with coral projects and I have, yeah, it's all upcycled T shirts and the recovered from the environment, ink, pollution and you, you're much more what's the word like? Well, you're faster with this process and I, I've been at it for like two years. I'm like, I did 1J shirts. you know. but I feel like, you know, if we're talking about sustainable, right?

Part of it is that you don't produce access and all of that. So it is a smaller production and it is, you know, so for lack of a better word, right? Because you're trying to be very, very mindful or whenever you put things together and all of that. And I think it is the time where we, we, we try, we, we think about because it's been decades where we're just trying to get more convenience out of everything and now it's like we're at a stage. It's a pretty convenience, right? So, like you kind of like, take a poll and think about, ok, maybe, maybe I, I don't need this thing, you know, within the next two hours I can be more, you know, considerate and research a little bit more and maybe plan it out a little bit and, you know. So, yeah, it's a lifestyle I think. I mean, this is something talk about all the time. Like Amazon in itself is not evil alone. We have just abused it. Like, like plastic. It's like everything doesn't heed to come in plastic. In the 1970’s, plastic wasn't in the grocery store. 

Like, for the most part, you know, and, and we all survived somehow and it's like, can we just, like, shift the focus to? Yeah, like you said, like, I don't need it delivered tomorrow and, oh, maybe I can find a local business that I can support to buy this thing from like there's a light bulb store downstairs now, which is very convenient. I bought a light bulb from them. I didn't have to buy it on Amazon, you know, or like, yeah, do some food planning. Right. So, you don't have to last minute I have to bunch of stuff that, that, that's, you know, rush delivery and all of that work. But it's worth it. It's, it's worth it. And I, I do understand for us to say this, but that means some, let's say there's someone but there who's doing a very demanding job and they may find themselves lacking the time there. But again, back to the, the point we talked about earlier, right? It, it, it is about finding that balance, right? 

And it's also, and I wouldn't make that argument if a job that makes you have no time to grocery shopping, you make sure that the right to, you know, there is, there's not a conversation and toxic work environment. But, but one point when you mention the plastic, I think there is another thing when it comes to sustain sustainability. I thin: it's very important is that it's, it's a learning process as in when it comes to plastic, right? When they just came out. Actually I remember back then the, the whole consensus was, oh, this is great because that means we can cut trees. But then, ok, after 20 something years of using this mass industrial level we realize, oh, it ends up in the shrimp and ends up in our own body system, right? So this is something that's not discovered 20 years ago. So I think when it comes to it's, you have to be taking the scientific approach. It is a learning process and what we believe today as maybe the best solution, which I don't believe there is one, but the best 1 may not be the actual a good solution. You know, such a good 0.10 years down the road when we have more data or more evidence. 

So it's just something that you trust the process of learning be open to, It's like you can't, it's like never stop learning, always be learning. Never no to to the learning. It's not like you made this decision today and now you never have to make that decision again because it's a concept what we did and all of that, it's been such a delight to have you. Thank you so much. Your products are gorgeous and beautiful and I want to see them in all the department stores and all the countries and all the cities of the world because they're just so beautiful. They're so, you know, they're so nice to touch, feel so good in the heart. I love putting my B Corp bank card and my ego, my ego wallet. and that's available for all of us and like what you're do, you're pioneering this for us. So, thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.

Bye. 

All right. So Caleb and I just finished talking with CEO Heather of Allegorie. 

And yeah, we were after the conversation, acknowledging all the questions that we want to ask that we didn't get to ask that we're gonna ask next time. But yeah, what, what thoughts do you have about? What we just discussed? I think it was really interesting and empowering from not only as another business woman, business owner, but also to see someone pushing for a change in the world that isn't yet accepted as the change that needs to come. So I think those are two powerful things that she's doing and continues to do and, you know, that was inspiring for myself, you know, as another brand owner. So yeah, and also as somebody that's pushing for change through whether that's apparel or design, you know. So I think there's a deep di a different meaning, a deeper meaning than just what is physical, you know. 

Yeah absolutely. It's what you just said makes me think about like actually every little thing we own means something, whether or not we're acknowledging that it means something is something different. I think artists get this first because we make things. So we think about the energy and the value of a thing in front of us. But like I'm looking at the potholder on my wall back there. They're handmade by an artisan from an art project that I curated seven years ago with my friend Sörine.

And it's an African boutique fabric that was handmade here in New York, you know, by, by a female artisan with her family and that's just a potholder. 

Like I didn't go to IKEA and buy, I was like, oh, I'm gonna, you know, yeah, this is valuable and like from the things that I'm wearing and I know you feel the same way. Like I know the woman that hand made these, you know, hand dyed, these sweatpants, the sweatshirt. Ok. It's Lenny Kravitz like he's special. 

So but yeah, but every little object like holds meaning and it's like, are you gonna author that meaning or are you just gonna be like the victim or like in the wind with like what's around you? And I think it's like whenever somebody buys something off of my brand, I especially me because it means you support my message, my goal and what I'm doing. So it's like when you're out in the world, you're like a walking billboard for that.

On every exchange, every person you talk to every post you make with yourself wearing, you know, or even with her bags and like that's a conversation that's gonna come up, everybody's in the scene and be like, where did you get that from? And it's gonna just come out, you know, and I think that's so beautiful. So yeah, it's important. Yeah, I feel like we're, we're on a precipice of a big shift from, yeah, from everything must be easy. Access must be simplest, fastest, cheapest to like well what do I care about?

And, I hope, I mean that's the, that's the lesson I took away from the pandemic. I think that's the lesson you took away at the next level from the pandemic. It's like, am I gonna make my life really what I want my life to be or am I just gonna be? Yeah. Doing what's expected of me. It's she's breaking a mold like literally, right? And you are doing that and I'm trying to do that.

Like with my poor whole waves images, the biodegradable mural, it's I visited it last night on the Apple Bank and it's like, it's basically just texture now. It's like the image is mostly gone. But I also love that about it because it's like this like this had a life and we're gonna, and it transformed with the world around it and I can renew it because I have more prints aid I'll do a new version of it. But then it's like, you know, when you're talking about people wearing your clothes and like, I just started in my mind seeing people all over the world in like a Caleb gear something. 

 And then it's like a collective of individuals moving through the world together, even though we're not physically beside each other. And that's how I see that project. Like everyone that I know that has one of those photographs on their wall. To me, it's a, it's a worldwide installation. It's like, it's not just that one on your wall. The one on your wall relates to the two on my wall relates to this to the nine on the Apple Bank. It's like it's like movements of energy and alignment. It's really beautiful. 

 Tell us when do you have like a pop up coming up or like what's up with your brand? don't have a pop up coming up yet. I actually, there's a fashion show happening at Duke University that I'm currently making a collection for that. The fashion show is the weekend of April 23rd. So everything, pictures, posts will be coming out then and then that collection will be available online and everything from that collection is thrifted. 

 I love it. So, oh my God, it was this amazing process going to different. I went to the goodwill in Long Island City and then I went to L Train knows me already because I did a previous collection and I had their stuff. So that's been great. I went to L Train. So I'm was able to gather a lot of stuff and I'll tell a little bit about what it is. I'm working on really creating characters. For each borough... So each burrow is going to be symbolized by a character that is animal dressed up in urban clothing styles that are currently in trend or what I'm predicting is in the future. And you can kind of, even if you're not from New York specifically, you can kind of put yourself in the character's shoes based on the characteristics of that character. So each collection I started off with Queens and Manhattan because I'm from Queens. So I started off with those two and then I'm going to go to Brooklyn Staten Island, the Bronx. 

Yeah. So I'm super excited and I'm excited to show the world what's to come, you know, with everything. So that's been great. That's so cool. I also wanted you to expand upon the production company that you're working with, that are college kids that like what, what all like because production company is a broad term, it can mean a lot of things. So what exactly are they doing? 

 So their name is, let me just have it for me so that I can say it correctly. OK. So it's fits creators FIT and then creators, you can find them online. They also have a website. I also have my on there, but basically what they're currently doing as a production agency. If you are a designer, you can go to them and what whatever your issue is in regards to your process, if you need someone to sew something. They can sort that for you. If you need printing shops, they will go on your behalf, contact multiple printing shops and say we need this done.

What's your quote, all that stuff? When you pay them and they send it out, you bring the clothing to them. They bring the clothing there because that was one thing that was like, I can't go everywhere. It was a lot for me. I was going from midtown. I was to Brownsville. Oh, wow. It was a lot. So to have non New Yorkers don't know, non New Yorkers don't know. That's like a two-hour trip land then back to midtown. So that was a lot for me and to have a team behind you. They also do photos shoot. So if you need a space to do a photo shoot or a photographer, they have everything. And it's crazy to say like, you know, it's so beautiful that they're high. I mean, not high school college students, you know, they're the founder is getting ready to graduate from NYU. 

 So that's gonna be great for him and I'm excited to see what he's going to do. And so I definitely recommend checking them out. It's a beautiful team and that's something that I've just been really needing and support, support. But this is what I've been working on too. Like, how do I do? How many things that I'm doing and like, do them well on my own, you know, like it's, you need to have like an expert in this to take care of that for you. And as soon as that gets off your plate, your mind is more free to be creative again, to problem solve, to see the bigger picture. It's like it's hard to go from the macro to the micro, to the macro to the micro and like get all in there. Are they also doing social media stuff or is it all physical production? in regards to like content for, yeah, for clients. 

 I'm not sure. That's something that I don't know if that's in the process of doing that as well. I'm sure that is definitely on their radar as well, being able to do that. because they were talking about managing, helping management, that's what I want to talk about that because, you know, you got to think about like these big companies, how are they moving? You know what I'm saying? Like knowing the ins and outs of these big companies and understanding how they're working makes you think like, OK, how do I work like that on my own network? There's so many people that touch products from these big brands, there's so many areas, so many sections. So it's like, OK, how do I fit that in my own small business growing? And it's like, really about those relationships, connections and like navigating that and as a female business owner, woman of color, it's like, can be hard, it can be intimidating and like having you to speak up for yourself, you know, navigate who's trying to just take your money.

 It's like before you even said a word, all these decisions have already been made about you. I mean, I experienced that too and just being a woman, it's like, oh, you know, you look this certain kind of way you dress a certain kind of way your posture is a certain kind of way. I'm just going to take over here. Like, and like, even I was thinking about you as an art hand. Do I know that's something that you do. Like, I can only imagine, like going into like a hardware store. Like, you don't know what you're talking about and you're like, I know what I'm doing. I just, I like to drop like little, like, blow their mind bombs where it's like, yeah, the other day I hung this £450 Rauschenberg on a, on a wall with the quarterly behind it. 

 And they're like, oh, and it was perfectly level, like the instant I put it up like, yeah, I got, I got this. But yeah, but there's all these options. So and it's like, how do you not let that impact all the little secret, like things that tell you that you're wrong and bad and not good enough because like, we all have a little bit of that narrative that we're healing through of like, vou know, well you're not quite this. So maybe you're not allowed to do this. It's like clearing that while like also getting your objective met. Yeah, I think something like as an artist, I feel like you're always questioning yourself and like taking a break from like being a full time art student to working at a ideas like and then kind of stopping working on my own art once I was like, task this with this, I mean, I, I only have a month, had a month to like figure out the production to design and then get into production and find the clothing. 

 But I was like, realized I was questioning myself because I hadn't done this in a long time. Like, is this design good? Right. What's this gonna look? And you know, I couldn't allow myself based on what I felt like society and just all these other things get to me like I knew like, OK, for this, I need help and I don't need to do this on my own. And that's OK. So I went to my coworker and I was like, hey, can you just go to a coffee shop and can I just pick your brain about what this looks like and how and it was so helpful and it's just like, just really sitting with yourself and like allowing yourself to know like, no, I know that I an this, this and this based off my affirmations, what do you need right now? How can we move forward? 

 Because if you get in that run of like, just like starting and yet it could go on for so, and I had a conversation with somebody yesterday and they were like, oh, I want to start my own clothing and I was like, you just do it. And they were like, oh, I'm a perfectionist. Like, so am I like, you know, it's not a problem. It's not a problem. Like, I wish that I had somebody to tell me, like, older me to tell younger me because I started my brand when I was in high school, like my junior year, junior, senior year of high school and I just was afraid to push it. I was like, I don't have the resources. I don't have everything. I don't have the money to and it's just like now I didn't officially started my brand till my, the pandemic. 

So, yeah, I wish I didn't wait that long and allow those thoughts to, you know, eat at me and be like, you know, so the beautiful thing about what you just said is that was only like a five year, six year span of time. And like, I know people in their forties and fifties and, you know, older than that who never went back to the thing they love. Like my stepfather was writing a novel when we met him when I was 4.5 5 years old and he quit, he gave up on, nobody told him he had to stop, you know, it was still sitting there on the computer for, you know, I'm sure it's still in a drawer at his house. You know, and it's like, you know, that the timeline doesn't have to, can we not beat ourselves up about the timeline?

Like you did that extremely fast compared to him, for example, right? And, and you're still, you know, in your early twenties and, and you know, at this huge company where you're learning so much that you're applying immediately to your brand within months, you're applying it to your brand on a fashion show, on a fashion show that's, you know, at a university in another city, you know, it's like you're, you're actually going very quickly and it's like, but we always have that, you know, I could have done this a little better. I could have done that a little better. But yeah, I just want to acknowledge that like you're doing it, you're doing excellent. Yeah, I like now I'm very much like a just do it. Like if you fail like you were because you needed to learn something in that moment and that's OK to be in flow. 

 We've also talked about like, l've had conversations with other people and this might be kind of streaming away from more. But let's say that you automatically made it to the top. Like ma let's say you were right out of grad school, you made your first painting or whatever, you decide to do sculpture and it just shot out. You went big and, but you were there and you were like, you didn't make those mistakes beforehand to know and you're making it in front of it, you're making it in front of everybody or that big shot was short lived because you didn't know how to navigate those other things you would have learned in that process before, you know. So I really think that there's so many stories, there's so many steps and detours and being an artist and designer, there's no straight path. You know, if I, if you would have told me, like going into college, like, I, this is where I would end up. I wouldn't believe it, you know, like I didn't even believe it last year. I was going to go to grad school. So it's like you don't know where your path is but you got to keep your money. 

 So like, know who you are and try and be a firm in that. So, yeah, those have been my take away. My take is my soap boss. It's good. Right. I kind of like it ages you a little but you could bring it back, you could bring it back. All right. Well, I’m glad we’ve did this little digestion. And, yeah, we're definitely going to have heather back on, like, in the next couple of months we have so much more to talk about, but I'm glad that you're here. It's so good to see you and we talk everybody again soon.