The Power We Hold Podcast S01 Ep08: Sexual Assault Recovery

Thank you for joining me, your host and eco-visual artist Vanessa Albury, on my journey to becoming a better ally to people of all diversities (bipoc, LGBTQAI2S+, non-normative brained and embodied +) and steward of the environment in podcast form as The Power We Hold! This is part of Coral Projects' work in eco-consciousness healing. My co-host, Caleb Williams, is also an artist. She is 21 years my junior and makes art about her experience as a Black woman in America. We have in-depth conversation together and with others about difficult topics full of love and healing.

Trigger warning: It's about healing from sexual trauma. We do not go into details, but please decide if this is for you.

Episode 8 is a very powerful conversation between Caleb and I about healing from sexual assault. We feel this is an important topic to share. We both hit triggers and blocks to move through in order to get it out there. Sharing growth from trauma is one of the final signs of healing through it. There is no dodging the trauma in healing. There are acceptance, responsibility for the self and choices all the way.

I open with context around how I see healing and the contemporary moment we are all in together around women’s bodies. I share my masterclass Get the Love You Deserve which is my 4 steps of healing to moving out of jobs and relationships that did not serve me into living the life of my dreams, truly BEYOND my dreams.

I hope our conversation supports you. Please share it with 3 other people, and at least 1 cis-gendered man. We all need to be in this conversation. We need healing around sexual assault as a community. Let’s keep talking about how we heal!

Thank you for your participation in this powerful conversation.

Originally recorded July 12, 2022 in Brooklyn, NY.

 Show Notes:
The Power We Hold Podcast IG, website
Vanessa Albury IG, website
Coral Projects IG, website + Make a tax-deductible donation
Caleb Williams IG, website

Music Clear Skys by Wael Elhalaby IG, Soundcloud
Audio Editing by Bryan Klausing Rain Junkies website, LinkedIn

Coral Projects in Italy + Hyperallergic

Caroline Myss

Karpman's Drama Triangle

Master Sri Akarshana

Get the Love You Deserve Masterclass

Phoenix Rising       

The U.S. Department of Justice reports that: 73% of sexual assaults are perpetrated by a non-stranger. 28% by an intimate partner. 7% by a relative of the victim.

Agnes Vivarelli

To Be Magnetic

Fight, flight, fawn and FREEZE

Hotline for sexual assault 800-656-HOPE (4673) + Link has chat line too 

Transcript

The Power We Hold Podcast

With Host Vanessa Abury + Co-host Caleb Williams

“Pilot Script” PDF

I do have scripts for any of our shows since we are an unscripted conversational podcast. However, here is the transcript of a recent episode of conversation between Caleb Williams and Vanessa Albury about healing and recovering from sexual assault. Below the transcript are the show note for this episode.

Season 1 Episode 08 - Sexual Assault Recovery 

Hello, and welcome back to The Power We Hold podcast. 

It has been a minute since we've posted any episodes. I've been so busy traveling mostly. I made amazing underwater eco exhibition temporary site in Southern Italy at the end of summer, beginning of the fall, which is incredible. And leading to new opportunities for Coral Projects. I'm so excited about Hyperallergic has posted a piece about the documentary I'm making for the first permanent site that will hopefully be in that same region of Southern Italy. You can check out details at the @coral.projects IG and on the website. Details are in the notes for the post for the show and Caleb has been super busy. What a beautiful being! She she's been traveling also working for Adidas and on her brand and just being the amazing, incredible human that she is an artist that she is. We recorded this episode many months ago on the heels of roe v wade being reversed by the Supreme Court. And this idea that a small minority who wish to control everybody's bodies has a right to do that somehow and some key conversations that Aoc Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, has been forwarding, but today I was inspired to bring this introduction on. I didn't know when that was going to happen, but I knew it was going to happen in the right timing. 
 
 I've been reading a book to have with me here called the Anatomy of the Spirit by Caroline Myss. it's a book about healing, the stages of healing. She wrote it in the, I want to say, the 80s or 96. It was published in 1996. So it's like an old paperback and I love it. I'm one of those people that underlines things and take notes and books because for me, reading is a conversation. It's a dialogue and I find it powerful to have that conversation on the page with the author for myself. But anyway, I read this this paragraph a few minutes ago and realized that this is the beginning to this episode. 
 
 This episode today is about healing from sexual assault, from sexual trauma and there's a trigger warning. We don't go into graphic detail or anything, but you know, if you've had experiences and you're not wanting to look at the healing process and the healing journey, you know, maybe you want to skip this episode and if you have small children around maybe you want to listen to it and without them present. But so this this paragraph from Caroline Myss, she refers... she's talking about a patient that she helped heal from AIDS via energetic and medical support. So this is in the 80's, 1985 that that happened. So she's been on she's been an international speaker about this process, her capacity to read the energetic of the cells of the body and she works with medical doctors to help the patient heal. So referencing Peter's case. She says, "Some people referred to Peter's case as a miracle implying that he had received a special grace from God that assisted his healing. And that without that grace, he would never have gotten. Well, that might be the case. One must still ask, what does it take to make a miracle happen? I believe that our cell tissues hold the vibrational patterns of our attitudes, our belief systems and the presence or absence of an exquisite energy frequency or grace that we can activate by calling back our spirits from negative attachments." 
 
 So for me, that paragraph, just it lit me up. This is the whole point of my life's purpose. I'm here for healing for people and the planet through art and the oceans and this podcast is key for me and how that happens. So, reading Carolyn's book and how she understands health and her perspective of looking at individual health, and then pulling back and look at looking at the health of a culture in a certain moment and the energetic of that and then the energetic of also what's going on on the planet at the same time and finding parallels and epidemic in health systems of humanity with the health of the planet. I mean, it's just so aligned, isn't it? If you know me, you know, it's like, yeah, this is what I'm here for. 
 
 So I'm going to take it back to sexual assault surviving and thriving post sexual assault because there's so much shame attached to being a person who has experienced sexual assault and there's so little talk in our culture and America and Western culture, especially about, about a woman's body and about consent and you know what it is to have a sexual encounter with another person and to be a female body. AOC talks about it can be that a woman could be six weeks pregnant before she even notices that she's missed her cycle. And the new decisions and debates around should a woman have eight or 12 weeks to decide to terminate. It doesn't give you much time to make an appointment to have an abortion. Should you have been become pregnant and not want to and especially pregnant via an assault. And there's a, there's a factor that she points out that that is key here to me, which is the impossibility to predict a timeline of emotionally and mentally coming to terms with what's up in the body. Spiritual healing doesn't have a timeline. It exists beyond space and time. And yet we are physical creatures bound by physical bodies and systems that we work within and live within. It's essential. So this balance, what is the balance of that energetic space and in this physical world that we live in. That's where my heart and my mind go to when I think about healing.
 
 So I want to talk a little bit about, you know, the subconscious and the conscious. So when you've had a conscious experience, but you're not able to handle it fully. Some of that information from what's happened gets buried in your subconscious and it becomes a block. Someone I know and I love dearly was raped as a teenager and for about two decades, couldn't remember that that happened to her. She said that she recalled just feeling very sad the next day and not knowing why. And I think this speaks to the power of how the mind and body work together. 
 
 She wasn't ready to face what she had lived through. And so her subconscious just created a little loophole a little. We're not going to look at that until you're ready. And then when she was finally ready to look at it, then of course all this information came through and the healing process really started then. So I'm thinking about how we heal, how we heal as bodies, how we heal as emotional beings and spiritual creatures that are embodied in bodies and how that dynamic relates to our presence on the planet, which again, my overall life purpose is that healing. 
 
 And I'm still figuring out how I talk about these links between the emotional body, the energetic body, the physical body and our presence on the planet for me, I'm very clear that the energetic of being eco-friendly of being eco-friendly forward is really essential for all levels of healing and facing hard truths like facing what's ugly, not just like walking by the plastic bottle floating on the sidewalk in the air, just rolling around on the street, but picking that plastic bottle up and one choosing to put it in a trash can or to choosing to put it in a recycling bin or three choosing to take it home, collect a bunch of plastic bottles and give them all back to the company that made them because there's a level of accountability that's missing and there's spiritual healing in holding other people accountable for coming forward and saying this is my experience and giving the other person an opportunity to face their role in that experience. 
 
 And I think this is on an individual level and this is on a cultural and societal level and I'm thinking about men and women in particular right now, but but really any aggressor towards anyone else and this is regardless of age, sex, gender, you know, socioeconomic status, race, all these things. It's I think this is true across the board, The people who are experiencing an oppression or an injury need to step forward and talk about the difficult feelings. Talk about the unpleasant feelings not to loop in it, but to heal through it. To say this is my experience and to release that shame and that guilt of being a victim right? Because victim mentality once you develop it, you just started playing it out in all aspects of your life, it's not healthy for anyone involved, especially the person who's going through it.

But I think actually I think it's equal. I think it's not healthy for that person nor the people who are being villainized. And when we step out of that role of victim it's that it's that drama triangle right? Step out of the role of victim and into the role of creator, the role of villain turns into role of challenger. And then you no longer need a hero to save vou. You just have coaches and support systems and it's a much healthier dynamic. I'll put a link in the show notes on the drama triangle for anyone who's interested. So it's good to be back with you. It's good to feel lit up about this topic and to see how these ideas overlap for me and to keep moving forward through it. 
 
 I have a call to action for you listening to the episode. See what you think please share in the IG comments or I think there's chances to do that via Apple podcast and anywhere you're listening. You know what does this conversation mean to you? How do you see it? And because it's important that all our voices are part of this conversation there's no more room for hiding and shaming ourselves and living with our unpleasant feelings like we're captive of them. 
 
 So the call to action, please speak up, please speak out and please share this episode with three people, you know and of those three, please make sure that one is a cis gender man. It might be uncomfortable for him. If you're a man listening to this episode, I'm not here to villainize you, please don't take it that way. I'm here for healing for my healing for your healing for our collective healing.

The masculine energies that we live with have been toxic and the feminine energies that we have been living with have been equally toxic in other ways. So this is about you know, a great balancing, so it's good to be uncomfortable if you're uncomfortable you're growing as my yoga master Master Sri Akarshana. Namo Himalaya, Master. Thank you as he says, If you're uncomfortable, you're growing. If you're growing, you're living if you're not uncomfortable and pushing yourself then you're dying right? If you're not growing, you're dying, that's what he says. So this this is the good kind of discomfort for all of us to understand how trauma works. To understand how consent works and the nuances there and to have these conversations openly with each other so that we can find new ways of relating and protecting ourselves being safe together. 
 
 So without further ado, I am very pleased and delighted to share this very important episode to me and to Caleb with you now please know that this was not an easy conversation for either of us and we do it. We have these conversations together because we love ourselves. We love each other and we love you. We love all of humanity and we want we want the best for all of us. So please enjoy and do share your thoughts and comments with me and with others. Thank you. 
 
 Hello and welcome back to The Power we Hold podcast. I'm Vanessa. I'll be your host with my co host Caleb Williams. Hi, we're excited to be back and having this conversation with you all today about sexual assault recovery and what that looks like and what women go through and people go through. We happen to be women so we can't speak for everyone. But I thought it was really important, especially now with roe v wade being on everyone's minds to talk about what it looks like and this is now the moment that I will offer you a trigger warning. We're not going to get graphic about anything, this is about recovery, it's not about, you know, gruesome details, but if you have been assaulted and, you know, maybe haven't dealt with it, this could, you know, be a little difficult to listen to. So maybe don't share it with your small Children and maybe pause on it if you're someone who is in the process of recovering. 
 
 That said it also might be helpful to you, so I leave it to you to decide. Yeah, so Caleb and I have both had unpleasant sexual experiences where sexual assault is what I'm calling it. Is that what you call it? I was thinking maybe we talk about yours first because my recovery is got this whole timeline. 
 
 Yeah, I do think that mine has in a similar way. I think for me, I dealt with mine for a long time given that they were three different times at three different points in my life. So one was when I was around like maybe six or seven, and then the next one was when I was 14, and then the next one was when I was 18. So I dealt with all three of those by myself for a very long time and what that looked like in regards to recovery and well not even recovery, just dealing with it in general. A lot of emotions that feeling of, I just remember taking a lot of baths a lot and just trying to wash away this dirtiness that I felt was on my body. I used to do that a lot. I remember the second time I think my mom had asked me like, why are you taking all these showers? I was like, it's just hot and I feel dirty, but I was like going through something and I just didn't know how to talk to anybody about it. 
 
 Do you think that was the only reason that you weren't saying anything to anyone because you didn't have the language for it, I didn't have the language, just felt like it was my fault in a way, and I just felt like I've gotten this thing taken away from me that I was told like it's such a precious thing and that I was supposed to save it till marriage and it was like stripped away from me. So you did something like, I did something to make that happen. Classic, It's like the worst story, like yeah, okay, so I dealt with that for a while and then I was like, you know, praying about it and for me that's how I dealt with it, you know? and like, I don't know, I can never sit and I feel like I was fully forgiven. I kept feeling like, oh, like running it back wasn't my fault, was it not my fault and going through those emotions? And then after the last time it happened, I I was like okay, I'm fine, like this is their time weird and not really dealing with it more so just being like okay, that happened, let's go on with our lives. 
 
 So once I got to college, I thought it was fine, I was like, it's over, like that's not happening anymore, like it's done with the next part of my journey was I started dissociating, which I did a lot of research on and stuff like that, and that can come from trauma, especially like those situations because your brain chooses, like whenever you're in a situation that is stressful or overwhelming, it will allow you to disassociate because it it's like, oh, we're under attack, so we're going to remove you from that, and it's like, it's attack. And then also like, you don't have the skill set to deal with, so we're just going to take it off the table and it's like, ok, but these aren't assaults. These are stressed about like school or grade or work or this and that. So at first I didn't know what it was, which was confusing for me. I was like, literally like, I'm not on any drugs, I'm not on any alcohol, I'm completely sober. So why am I feeling like, like, I'm in a movie and I'm watching myself, like, I remember one time I called my friend because like, this is one of the moments that I was like, I'm freaking out because this is happening. I was walking home from work in the city and it was just like, nobody there. And I was like, I'm walking aimlessly, like, I'm not here, I feel invincible, like something's going to happen, it's not real.

And I called my friend, I was like freaking out because I'm like this is scary. That is an interesting point that you bring up this feeling of feeling invincible. I only say that because I know someone who assaulted in their teenage years by a stranger after being very drunk and didn't remember it the next day and just woke up feeling very sad and then started making really not smart decisions about her life for a decade and then she started to make smarter decisions and then another decade later she realized what happened that night. It came back, but for a long time it's like, oh she's just wild, but it's like no, she's traumatized and she doesn't know it. So after that I dealt with it for a long time but it was like affecting me and I didn't really tell a lot of people, but the people I was close to like recommended like, oh you should go to therapy. 
 
 So I went to therapy and it was like I was telling them what was happening and you know, I was feeling better and everything and for a little bit, but it would still come back and I was like okay, but like what's going on, why is it still happening? And I was just trying to learn in those moments to be present and like because it's a frustrating thing for me when I'm not able to be present in things that I want to be, I feel like I'm in a movie or an illusion and I'm so I'm trying to enjoy these moments, but I'm so focused on your not here right now. This feels weird what's going on and stuff like that. It wasn't till during the pandemic. So now fast forward my junior year. Yeah. My junior well then, no, it was my sophomore year of college. 
 
 So, but spring semester and I was going through a breakup and like I was going to therapy because I was a really bad breakup and I. a lot of things were coming up for me during the therapy and I decided to tell mv parents that I had been assaulted. I didn't feel comfortable going into detail. I just left it very brief like this is what's happened to me, I just want you guys to know. 
 
 And that was that another thing was I never wanted anybody to pity me, I didn't like that. And I also, a part of me always felt like I was strong for dealing with it by myself and like I got this like I can get through this, but in those moments that I was in therapy, it was like no you need help, like you need help to get through this. And for me, my journey was journaling like I said, I prayed a lot, I'm religious and that was what was grounding me and helped me realize like, okay that those moments wasn't my fault and that, you know, saying no and like speaking up for myself, even though in those situations I did say no and they didn't listen, but really just because it's such a hard thing because you'll be like, oh, like you need to be more careful and stuff like that. It's like no things can go left very quickly and like I've been in situations where it's like if I didn't close that door in that amount of time, God knows what would have happened, you know? 
 
 So it's like I've been blessed in those situations, but it's like, I just try and be very careful about who I hang around in people's intentions and stuff like that, but you still never know. And in some situations, a lot of people think that it's like always random strangers that it is, but a lot of the times it's people, you know, and that are close to you. 
 
 I know the percentage is really high, it's like 90 something percent. It's somebody that, you know, personally, I'II look it up and put it in. The show notes the percentage. But yeah, no, every, almost every assault I've ever heard of has been with somebody like 70%, of them, somebody, somebody knew and I think one of the biggest things that has helped me to heal because its onward journey, things are still triggering, like, well we were both triggered to have this conversation together. Yeah we've been talking about this for months and as the reality of it came we both had days were like whoa I gotta sit with myself like even just like I've noticed like things that I picked up on like I have like a fear of men like if I'm in the street and a man gets too close to me, like l'll kind of freeze and like move really quickly over and stuff like that. I don't like that. 
 
 I don't like when people touch me unless I say you can touch me or hug me or I'll initiate it. Like certain things used to trigger me like if I was touched the wrong way before like I'd be like freak out. So those are things that I realized that I'm still dealing with. But one thing that has really helped me was through my artwork. I do a lot of like video art pieces thinking about that piece that I saw in your thesis show when you were talking about the bathing, like stuff like that. 
 
 Well it's called video art but I like to call them short films. That's how I see it. But I in those works I'm reenacting moments that I did when I was assaulted and it also has like a ritual aspect to it but there's no real ritual, it's just like a symbolizing the old and coming into the new and healing and stuff like that and it's very therapeutic. I've done it enough now that it's like we're doing this again. We got to go back in the bathtub. And one thing that was really important in my thesis show was the bathroom. That has always been my safe space. 
 
 It's a place where I feel like I can relieve and wash away and let go. All things that I've gone through. I just can't help but keep remembering that you're a cancer. You know, I love water. Yeah, me too. Yeah, Scorpio. I literally love the water. Like even when I'm having bad days, like if I can go to the water and just sit there, like it's really like therapeutic for me. I'll go to the east River and just like for an hour or two hours just sit by the water at sunset. Yeah. So nice. It has really helped me to pinpoint those things. But those artworks have really helped me to not only reenact it, but also understand and process things that I've gone through an emotion. Should we reenact, reenact the healing? Yeah. Reenact the healing clear. Yeah, I'm not, no. Yeah, the healing steps and when I mean the healing steps.

A lot of my videos involved me in subversive myself in the bathtub. And what that looks like and those are things that I would do afterwards to help me heal, but also get through it. I think the rose petals are an element to that. Yeah, like the beauty in the healing. Yeah. Those are things that I like to incorporate that have just really shown me a lot. Remember I did the first one and it was just like, I was so scared because I'm like, oh my God, I'm telling my story like this is something, everyone's gonna see everything. These are things that I swore I was taking to the grave with me and I wasn't going to tell anybody. 
 
 I just want to hug 6-year-old Caleb. Like this is not something you have to carry. And like I think with that I was really inspired going to art school. I saw a lot of people that were very open about being assaulted through their work and I was like, wow, they're so brave, they're so brave. And it didn't take me to my sophomore year. But even in my freshman year that I was working on it, I was like alluding to things but people didn't really know what I was talking about and I didn't want to correct them either. But it wasn't until my sophomore year when I was in like shut, we were in lockdown and like I was still taking classes that I was like, I had to face like my past because it was like the present is like unknown. We don't know what we're going through the future is unknown. 
 
 So it was just like that's the only thing I can work through right now. And it was just like being inspired to do that. But also that was the time that I was like I'm going to let people know my story and I want to help others. That was a major thing for me. I didn't know how I was going to but I just wanted to let people know you're not alone, you know? And if you want to talk about it or create work about it, like I'm down to collab and you know, so it's really beautiful. 
 
 I love that the pandemic, it was like your spark to like start the healing because it was totally mine as well. Yeah, less directly. But yeah. So what do you do today? Like what are your steps now? You said you were journaling before? And do you feel like some days you still need to journal a lot? 
 
 I journal when I feel like I'm getting overwhelmed and like because I overthink a lot. So I try to like journal to help me process those emotions. I don't I haven't associated in a long time. Not till the other day and I like totally freaked out. But just because that's a frustrating thing to be like, oh that's good, we overcame that and then it comes back and it's like like I don't know how to deal with this right now and I just have to sit in this and you know, so I brought back a lot of memories of like when I was dealing with it consistently. And that just shows you that, like, healing isn't linear. It's like a constant journey like to talk about it like an onion. You're feeling that like, yeah, and that's cool and you're good. 
 
 And then there's another layer. I think now one thing that I've been doing a lot is just being more self aware about my body and what it needs. That was a big thing. I wasn't paying attention to before. I was constantly on the run. I was constantly going like, yeah, I do a lot now, but I tried to be every day, like aware of my body. Like, are you okay? What do we need? Do we need to yeah. Do we need to check in, do we need to journal? Do we need to do some self-care and give love to your body. Do we need some alone time? 
 
 So, I have a coach who I had a session with a few days ago and she said something kind of groundbreaking to me. She was like, in every moment of your life, you're meant to also be present with yourself. Like in no moment. Are you ever meant to not also be present with yourself. And I was like, oh, like that never occurred to me because I'll like, you know, if somebody else is upset, I'll just go down that wormhole with them, and where have I gone? And that's a form of disassociation that I had not had not clicked until he said it that specific way, wow. Present with myself at all times. And so l've been working on that for the last few days, like, my present? Yes, okay, keep going. 
 
 And it's a big thing in a group setting because I, like, I'm a people person, like to be with people. So it's like, when I'm in those group settings, I try and make sure, like, okay, this is going on right now, what do you need? How are you feeling? You know, just paying attention to myself instead of being so, like, engulfed in being in one group when it feels like that. But do you find that, like, in a group setting that you might start to slip into and my people pleasing? Like, am I trying to be liked here and pull back or like, what do you catch yourself? Because that's what I find, like, I'm applying myself too much to your needs. I'm not applying myself to my needs. I think so, like, if it's two people and we're like, having a conversation because they're going through something, I'II be like, okay, I'm trying to be here for my friend, but is this conversation too much for me right now, because I think one thing I had to learn because I don't usually talk to a lot of people about what I go through. 
 
 So it's like, I have to make sure that like I check in with them first. Like, hey, are you good? Are you busy? Are you able to talk? Is this is a good conversation right now? Like, I need to event I need to talk things out if it's not a good time, okay then I won't. But a lot of some people don't do that, they'll just be like, hey, I got to put you on and it's like, whoa, Like I am mentally and physically drained right now and I cannot have this conversation and that's me catering to me right now because sometimes when people do that, all that they're going through is now on you. And it's like, I'm not feeling good right now afterwards. 
 
 And group settings with more people than to it's more so just like, okay, we're doing this. How are you feeling? Because I like when I'm with people like, are you good, are we good? Are we having a good time like that? Even on my birthday, I remember my friend was like, everybody's fine, why do you keep checking on everybody just because I want everybody to have a good time, but like, are you having a good time? It's your birthday, You know? So like with that, but also just making sure like, I'm just aware of what's going on and how I'm feeling about that? And sometimes like I just catch things, maybe that's just me being an empath. 
 
 And that's also another thing, being an empath is very draining because it's like, oh my God, I'm around all these emotions and I'm feeling what you're feeling and nobody else knows what you're going through, but you're going through it and all over your face, No one can see it. And I'm like, oh my God, this is a lot. So this is the energetic boundaries, like their verbal boundaries, like what you're talking about, checking in with people, are you okay? Are we having fun? Or this is not a time for me to do this conversation, I'II talk to you in a day or two. 
 
 But then there's also energetic boundaries where you like, and it's hard to put into words because we have words for the verbal boundaries, but energy is invisible and untouchable and yet and yet those of us that are sensitive to it, you know, we feel it and you know, it's beyond description, but an energetic boundary is like, I like to Envision a golden egg of energy around me, sometimes it's 150 ft thick, sometimes it's as thick as the globe, as thick as I needed to be to block other people's energy and I look at it like a cocoon? And that's how I began to tap into my energetic boundary, what do you, what do you do there? I usually if I'm feeling it, I'm like it's just natural and be like, are you okay? Like are you good?

Sometimes I just remove myself. Sometimes if I'm around somebody I'm good or I'm excited about something and they're funky or whatever. Like you can handle that. I'm not dealing with that. No, you're not. You're not like you talk later, you can fix that and then come back to me. I'll literally say that, but that's great. Yeah. Because it's like you're not going to ruin this for me. Yeah. I'm not going to allow that energy to change how I'm feeling because I'm feeling good. That's what happened to me today. We talked about that before that. Yeah, totally. Like you're not gonna bring me down. I'm not going to let you do that. 
 
 And there's been a lot of situations like that and it's just like, okay. Like I think those people are like touchstones, they're like guide posts reminding you of your boundary is your boundary still there? Are you sure? Let's see. You know. And I think they're a gift in that way and it's easy to look at people that are having a really rough times and projecting it onto other people as bad or wrong, but I think it's important to take that judgment off and bring love there and bring understanding there. And then that also keeps it away from you even more? Thank you so much for sharing your story really, touching and I think a lot of women and possibly men and people of all gender will appreciate hearing what you've gone through and how, what your strategies are. I think this is a topic that we don't talk about enough and this is how we socialize our children to not share when they've been mistreated sexually. 
 
 And guilt is fueled by not having an atmosphere and environment where it's safe to talk about this stuff. I think actually racism is a similar problem in the linguistic and the language space, like we don't have safe spaces to talk about race. What we're starting to think you pandemic land bless George Floyd for what he's given us because that really, really turned the key and hopefully we can keep flying down that highway of creating safe spaces for difficult conversations because no one should have to carry these burdens alone. And yeah, just, I wish for everyone who goes through it to to know that, you know, it's not just for you to carry, it's for all of us to carry together. Yeah. Okay, so my time I have kind of a timeline on on my situation, the most recent one because I also actually now that you mentioned being younger, I had a situation when I was four or five. 
 
 That wasn't so bad, but because it was like another kid my age. So I was like, he didn't know what he was doing either, but I definitely fled the room and I was like, oh no. And I realized I kind of had a fear of men or fear of boys from that age on and I never really put that together actually until you said it today. So thank you. You have already started more healing, spreading more healing, I'm grateful to you. Yeah, I mean my friends in high school, like a lot of people thought I was kind of stuck up because | was quiet around people but not in the classroom in school.

Like I knew, you know what to say, I was smart and I had ideas and I was empowered in that space, but socially I was very quiet and that and I'm realizing the connection like, wow, thank you. Yeah, so I was in a relationship for five years, that was not a great relationship and when all your friends are like not into the person, like they think the person is fine, but nobody wants you to be with them. Like there's a reason, you know, pay attention and what I realize now is that I didn't know what self-love was. You know, you think, you know, until you're in a rock bottom and you, like, you at slapped over the face. You're like, “Oh, I really don't know how to take care of myself.” Like, wow. 
 
 So my situation happened with my ex on the day we broke up the third time. So it tells you about the relationship. And I was just so tired and just trying to sleep, but I was in his bed and he took that as an invitation. And it tells you about the dynamic in our relationship as well that we both participated in. Like, I definitely don't want to just villainize him because you know, I was, we were together for five years. Like, there was, there was a dynamic that I participated in and like, that was mid December and Like, three weeks later, the beginning of January 2018, I sat right where you're sitting right now, and I cried for four days straight listening to self love meditations. 
 
 I had been in a group on Facebook for recovery from like, relationship recovery and one of the women on that group recommended to me to look into law of attraction. And Agnes Vivarelli mentioned her in the show notes, she has these beautiful, she's just a lovely woman. She's got these beautiful self love meditations and they brought me to tears. I was like, oh my God, I this is hard, like, it's hard to say nice things to myself, wow, that's a real problem, you know? o that sparked and what happened in December, I didn't know it was sexual assault. I didn't know I did, I did say no the whole time and I cried the whole time and I kept saying no, but I was overpowered. 
 
 And uh, it just didn't register like, I think if somebody else had described the same situation to me, I would have been like, oh, that's assault, you know? But like you were saving the disassociations like the to have won the knowledge of what assault is was on one side of my brain and on the other side was what happened to me. So I started doing self hypnosis, mental neural pathway reprogramming through a project called to be magnetic and it's about manifestation and law of attraction, but it's about clearing your blocks to creating the life that you want, which that's what this clearly was a block. 
 
 And about, I guess mid 2020 I joined a group of three other women. We were all in different cities, L. A. Rio, Thailand and L. A. And me in New York and we would meet once a week online and talk about like which workshop we were doing and what was coming up for us and just like problem solved together. And these three women are so they're so smart and like tuned in and we challenged each other. We laughed. It was like, and I realized about eight or nine months in, I started having these dreams about my ex and I had sent him, I sent him an email because we had stayed in touch and you know, every couple of months he would check in and I just was like, I I don't want to talk to this person anymore. 
 
 And I wrote him an email or a text and was like, look, I want what's best for you. But what I really want is what's best for me and what that is not you. Maybe in a few years when I'm in another relationship, we can be friends. I don't know. But I know right now that this is a hard note for me and he respected those wishes. He didn't contact me anymore, which I'm very grateful for. 
 
 But then about six months later, I'm having these dreams and I have very vivid phantom touch style dreams. They're very uncomfortable. And and I realized after one of them, in one of them, I was in a classroom and he was in some seats across from me and I told someone beside me what had happened to me on our last encounter. And she was like, oh, he raped you. And I was like, oh, And then the whole room started saying it. Everybody in the room started telling him what he did. And then he was like, oh, you know? And he got up and left and people followed him telling him what he had done. And I was like, oh, okay. So we had a group meeting that next day and I was like, you guys, I think I was raped. Well, I'm just putting this together. But it was very surreal because of that disassociation you were talking about was like, oh, like it's so strange to even now saying that it feels like weird that it's true, you know, because I just don't associate myself with someone who's been assaulted, but I am, but I am someone who has been assaulted.
 
 And so because it's societally we have so much stigma around that and the disempowerment and there's like no good space for healing that. Yeah, so I gradually started to be able to tell people, I know you know what happened. And everyone was like so kind and loving and, you know, just like I'm sorry and do you need anything? I'm good. Just, just going through, just coming to a realization of what my life has been, that I didn't register and then this is so uncanny. 
 
 So see if I can keep this straight. In March of this year, I was cruising on Netflix and I saw that Rachel Evan Wood had a new documentary out, it's called phoenix rising, I think this was like March 15th and I was like, ah like I pinned on her, I think she's interesting as a human and I was like, I bet this is going to be good, but not tonight. And I remembered back when I was in graduate school at NYU walking down the street and seeing her face on the magazines this is like 2006 and seeing her with Marilyn Manson, who was her assault assaulter and thinking something's wrong here? I don't know what, but somebody's not looking out for her, somebody's not looking out for that child. She was very young.

And I just remember that memory came to me as I was flipping the channels. So I didn't watch it that night, but the next day I saw that she was on The Daily Show with Trevor Noah and she was talking about her piece, her documentary. So I watched what she had to say and I saw a totally different human than the little girl on that magazine. I don't know if you feel that way like a different person now than I was, I definitely know I am a different person. I feel like, I feel like it's funny because it's like this new trend on Tiktok and it's like, oh, if like 16 year old me could see me now or whatever. And I just think back like from time to time, like, wow, like my younger self would never think I would be where I am today. And just all the experiences I've been through and the challenges and how we've overcome them. I'm truly blessed for that and the journey still continues, you know? 
 
 But I definitely know that I'm not the same person that I was. Do you think your recovery from these assaults are a factor in that definitely? I don't, it has made me stronger. That's what I saw in that documentary. Like I saw a badass strong woman like dealing with her. Sh it it definitely has made me stronger in ways like it's forced me to grow up faster. Then obviously there's things that like, I don't know, like I'm 22 I'm still developing and there's things that I'm like, oh dealing with money and all this stuff, like I'm learning, you know, but, and in regards to like a more mature aspect and just dealing with myself, how I deal with men, how I deal with myself in public. It has forced me to be much stronger and hold my ground and kind of learn the game faster when it comes to men and not being shocked when things happen or being able to tell people like, no, you need to realize what he's doing, let's not be naive and able to be like, oh I know what he's doing, I know the game like I know what you want. I'm not, I'm not dumb so I definitely have been able to see the growth. I know it's there. 
 
 So yeah, that's beautiful. I think I keep thinking when you're talking a couple of times about the word trust because that's what we're rebuilding, right? And that's a process and that's a journey and, and it took about a year for me to get from telling my friends on this zoom call that I was assaulted to, to telling him what he did to me. So on my birthday in November, he sent me a message on Facebook. I blocked his text, blocked his emails. I didn't manage, I didn't think of Facebook and that's where he came through and that irked me because it was like the first time he broke what request? Yeah. Like there's a reason. Like I feel like when that kind of thing, there's a reason because there's more healing. 
 
 So I watched the documentary and I watched the interview she did with Trevor and then I watched the documentary and then it was a full moon, March 18th and I was cleaning my apartment, which I like to do like a deep clean around the full moon just happens. I got inspired. And I had this overwhelming urge to write him a letter. I was meant to be at dinner with my friends like in an hour. But I was like, I got to do this letter first. Like I can't go anywhere until I get this out. And for me, that was like a final frontier of facing it, right? When you tell someone look, you did this to me, I told, you know, you did it anyway, you took my presence as an invitation. It is not, you know, because like when there's two people in an event, it's like, well your story versus my story, right? And I've had too many times in my life where there's been that kind of narrative where like, where I was physically pushed around once and told I wasn't worth anything and then the people that did that don't remember doing it and think I'm crazy and you know, but when you've been assaulted, you remember every little detail and you're not in your head because you can call it up. 
 
 And the gift is when you've done enough healing to where it doesn't just come at the flashes, don't come at you anymore, but you can call it up if you need to recount it without pain, right? So I wrote the letter and I sent it and I stopped having dreams with him showing up. He would show up. I've seen him twice in my dreams since March, but at a distance, like where he's like mumbling to himself, like, it's like we're no longer connected. I've severed a major, you know, we're all human. So we're connected in that way. But like I told him in the letter for this lifetime, I'm complete with you. I don't blame you. I did tell him that I was like, I don't think you're evil. I don't think you're bad. I think you are, you were socialized in a certain way to think that this kind of behavior is acceptable and appropriate. And I also participated in this relationship that led you to think you could do this to me and that it was an invitation, but I'm going to stay right here right now that it was not and you know, I do truly wish the best for him, but I just don't want anything to do with it anymore. 
 
 You know, that's I think that's different from like, I don't sit here, I don't think about then. I remember one time I was out and I saw one of them and I just froze and I was just sick and it just brought so much up to me. I don't I don't hate anybody. I don't, but that's just I don't want nothing to do with you. I think what you did was like from my situation, I think what you did was terrible and that it's hard with a child to get past. I mean, you gotta be like making Michael Jackson level music for like any kind of Yeah, it's terrible. 
 
 But I know that's something that like has helped me, like I don't get flashbacks. I know what happened, but more so now it's like a memory that's not raw. It's like, it's like, oh, this happened. Yeah, this happened. You know, I think somewhere now it's just like dealing with the after effects that come with that I don't even know if aftereffects is the right word, but like you said like the layers that come with it, you know, that I deal with now, not so much the exact experience because it impacts you your entire identity. And I think one thing that you also talked about, like I don't I've never read a letter to them and I think that, but I think that I think that that's a powerful thing because you had direct contact with somebody that you had to disconnect and you had that opportunity to tell them. And I think that's a beautiful thing in itself, in my situation. In my short films, have a lot of like word art, poetry, I guess it's poetry at this point that I write and I don't really write poetry. 
 
 My dad was a poet, so I guess just in me, but whenever I write that and then I have to now say it and then I hear it, it's like those things are like chains are broken each time I write a new piece totally. Well I think letter writing, even if you don't send it is very powerful and then reading it back and like seeing your story and seeing where you've like where you've identified yourself with the trauma or with the assault and how to separate yourself, like who you know, you really are and words are like, I truly believe that words are very powerful. You can use words for good or evil, you can speak life or death into any situation. I actually believe that. 
 
 So when those situations happen and I right it's like I don't know it's it's a beautiful and like it's empowering, you know and it allows me to get to the next stage knowing that and each piece I create, I enjoy because it's like, I don't know, it's like and when I see people watch it, it's like a friend you're watching me but then it's like I wonder how they're relating to it because you know when I saw like I saw the bathtub work in 2020 because we met in March 2020 or May, March May, it was May. May I think when we connected. Yeah may June. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Because we put your work up in June Yeah. Yeah, so you sent me like some of the clips and I knew what I was watching was about healing. I knew it was about internal work. I knew it was about dealing with being woman and being female and being black, but mostly about like it felt more woman oriented and I kept pinging on the rose petals like that the nature that you bring in and that just that really spoke to me about healing and then as I've known you more of the story has unraveled. 
 
 I think one I'm just remembering, I know I told you my freshman year, I did a piece but it wasn't like people didn't when I presented it, people didn't know what I was talking about, I knew what I was talking about, but it wasn't until I had my first assignment and it was, It was me and three other girls in my class. And we were given the assignment to interview one another and it wasn't a traditional interview, you could be creative with it and stuff like that. And we had a conversation, well something had happened which sparked it. I was going to work and I was walking, it was dark I had on a hoodie I had on sweatpants, and one thing that gets me very mad is when people be like, oh if you walk outside with this song and this song, you know, I had a hoodie I had on sweatpants, I looked like a boy and I was walking to work and this man was walking towards me and he literally hit my vagina and walked away laughing. 
 
 Oh my God. And I had enough. I've had cat calling and like, baggy clothes and but not that. And I was just like, so in shock. I was just like, wow! Like because I've never had anybody like in public. Yeah, it was just like so quick that I couldn't even do anything. And I was just like, I remember I called my boyfriend at the time and I was freaking out and I told my boss, I was like, I'm not going to work, I'm I can't I can't do this. And I took, I took an Uber home. I don't remember what I did, but I was freaking out. And I remember I shared this story with them and then they shared their stories and I was like, wow, we have a story and that was like, we each created and helped each other film each individual of our stories, but we didn't edit them together, we edit them all separately. And it was beautiful because when we, one person put it all together, when we showed it, I was in awe because it was like, how are these all the same topic? Different stories? We filmed it differently, but it looks cohesive.
 
 And I remember because Lyle was teaching the class and he was just like, wow, until this day, he recalls that piece and it sounds very probable that piece was the first time that I had ever talked about anything happened to me. And then it just brought up everything else. I was just like, I'm talking about this, don't care, it's out the bag. I'm telling everybody and everyone. And, I'm fine with that. It speaks to also like when you do finally say something, how people respond to you and never knew how I wanted to say because I never wanted. And it was interesting because my friends were like, are you going to report it to the school and did it?

And I'm like, I get like five emails a week talking about all sexual assault conduct and that was interesting because that was the text that I used in the audio as the audio for the video. I literally read off a script of like red off one of the assaults letters that they had at the school. So I was like, no, I'm not, I'm not dealing with any of that. I don't want to deal with security. I don't want to do like cops. I don't, I don't, that's not what I want. I want, I want people to know that this is something that's happening and it shouldn't be normalized and that it needs to stop. 
 
 I want other women and men and people who have been other genders that have been assaulted to know that they're not alone and that they can speak up and that this is not something that they have to do by themselves because I just know that carrying that burden around by yourself is does not feel good. And yeah, it's heavy. Yeah. And you don't even know it when you're, when it's right, it's like, you know that you have, that you're not telling people something, but like you don't put it together what exactly you're not telling people. 
 
 You know like, oh, oh, it's because this is assault and people, I think congress in particular and many men and people who haven't been assaulted think like, well if it happened, then you should know what happened. And you should just say it happened and that's why there's a statue of limitations. I think it's like five or seven years now in California. Actually Evan Rachel Wood documentary is about extending the statute of limitations to longer period for this very reason because it takes time first to like conceptualize what's happened to your body and then to have the bravery to tell anyone much less your assault mint or the cops to go public. That's a whole other level. 
 
 And if the person that you know in my situation, it's just like, well like that's not how it went down. You know, somebody could just say that, you know, and that would be hurtful enough. But in other situations, you know, it could be like, you know, if there's a baby involved, there's so many complexities involved and what if the other person is violent like Evans ex is definitely not a safe person to be around and they could come after you and she takes precautions in the in the documentary because of that she doesn't want him to know anywhere that anywhere she is. And so it's like how could you have any limitation on this? And then I think back to the person I know who sat on her assault for 20 years because she didn't, her mind wouldn't let her register. It took therapy for her to finally come to terms with it. 
 
 You know, these timelines are our fiction that you, that you should just know, hmm. It's funny that you mentioned seeing someone after like on the street after they've done something to you like out and about, before I, I realized that I had been assaulted, I saw him. It was actually a day after I hung one of the banners with your work on it at Jordana's house, McGlorick Park. I was like, oh, l'lI bike over and put some air in my tires. Wouldn't, you know, there he was with his girlfriend who was the same woman that he cheated on me with. Yeah. So the relationship was very, not healthy. And I know she didn't know who was, but I didn't feel anything. I wasn't angry. I wasn't like, I didn't have any emotion about it and I was so happy. I was like, wow, I've really come a long way that I can be in front of this person and have no feelings and that's even before I knew. 
 
 And then, so they leave and I'm putting air in my tires and these two other women bike up behind me. I'm like, you guys guess what? And you didn't even know that I didn't know I was like, I just saw my ex and I feel nothing. They were like, yeah, it was awesome. But yeah, I don't know. Like, I think, I don't know what I would do now if I saw, if I saw him, I think I would just, you know, try not to engage in any way while also not taking myself off the path that I'm on. You know, which I think is an important factor. Like I'm not trying to avoid him, but I'm just like, nah, I'm doing my thing. You can just breathe on by. Yeah. 
 
 Do you think, what do you think it would be like for you to see any of them people that you this experience with? I don't know. It's not so much what I well my body, your body, my body going to be doing is my body gonna like totally freak out because then that just affects me. It's like your mind is one thing to try and control, but your body's response is that I'm not there yet and I don't know if I'm going to get like, that's a whole other thing. So I don't know if I can actually answer that question. That's fair. I think this is why we have those four stages like fight flight fawn or there's a new one. It's another F word. It's not faint. I'lI put it in the show notes. I'll look it up. 
 
 But you know, to have, we have these words so that in those moments we can identify what our bodies up to. I think people that haven't dealt with assault also don't have that realization that your body has a reaction. It's like an allergy suddenly you're eating a strawberry and your mouth flares up. You're not going to eat any more strawberries. It's like that same kind of thing. It's like your mind is like, but I want to like strawberries like I want to walk down the street and strawberry can pass and it's cool. You know? 
 
 Yeah. Hmm. I'm really grateful to you for this conversation. I think you know, putting the air in this is helpful. I think to me to hear your story and already I told you that you've helped me realize something more about myself and to also, you know, talk about how, you know, cause art used to be like art about trauma or are about healing used to be like a poo pooed. Like I know. Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking about that when you're talking about your video work. Like yeah, we had like, I remember, I think it was my freshman year a professor was like, oh you don't, you don't want your artwork to be driven off of like, like sadness and things you've been through feel like you have to go through something sad to create art. 
 
 And it's like, no, like I'm not doing it because that's what drives and it's interesting because it was my thesis show and my other show that you went to the honors one were totally different. It had an element of it in there. And the honor show in regards to breaking generational curses and that was one of the things that was in there. But my main focus in my thesis show was reclaiming the body and what that looks like after being sexually assaulted. And I don't see it as making artwork out of trauma completely. I see it as a healing process because I'm not sitting here showing you all the raw and gory and the sadness and stuff like that. I'm giving you the truth, I'm showing you what I've done. 
 
 But I'm also showing you the other side to it. You're focused on. I'm focused mainly on the other side. And I think that, you know, reclaiming your body is something that a lot of people don't realize that you can do and it takes work. It takes time. But Your body is yours. You were given this, you were brought here and it's something special and it's just like you should take care of it. Yeah. Good. Yeah. It's funny that.

Well, it's interesting that you mentioned this because it made me think about artworks that I made in graduate school and before. And I made a piece where I'm literally crying for 45 minutes reading text messages from a relationship from the beginning of a relationship to the end of a relationship. And it's every text I read every text message for the whole relationship. And I was just in it.

I wasn't healing. I have narcolepsy as we've talked about before. Narcolepsy with cataplexy. And so there was a trauma and then there's that trauma on top of all these other traumas that I hadn't really begun healing because I didn't know how I didn't have the tools and I didn't know how. And so I remember in graduate school beloved John Torreano, did me a solid  had had a studio visit with Chrissie Iles of the Whitney, video art curator, their video and film and john was bringing her around. So he was there and he asked, he's like Vanessa, when are you going to make work about being happy? Like why is it always about being sad? 
 
 And like, I was so offended at the time, but I realized later that that was actually a very kind thing for him to ask me because I was just spinning in the upset because I didn't have tools. I had therapy, therapy didn't help me. It helps many people and I'm not going to knock it, but for me, it was not the thing. And in another episode, we'll do a breakdown of all the tools because I've gone through like so many programs had pulled on so many resources. 
 
 My up level has been since the pandemic, the gift of the pandemic repealing my spiritual journey has really upped my healing practice, but you know, when you look at my work now, it's got a totally different tenor, right? Like I'm not, it's not about sadness, it's about, it's now about healing. Yeah, so kudos to you for figuring that out way early. Like that's awesome. Yeah, because I really spun in it for a long time. And, and it was pointed out to me in different ways and kindly, even if triggering lee, but you know, if you don't know what you're doing, you don't have any resource.

Like it doesn't matter if somebody points it out to you and really you have to realize that yourself first and no one can tell you. And if somebody tries to tell you too hard pushes that pushes the agenda too hard and then they're your enemy. They become like, you know, get away from me. Well, I know we both hope that this conversation is supportive to everyone listening. And you know, we'll put also in the show notes, a hotline for sexual assault. I don't want to say victims because yeah, but sexual assault experiences have that resource available. And yeah, I just want to commend anyone who's on this journey keep going. Yeah, it's worth it. I feel so much lighter in my life. I think once I spoke on it and I think the final piece was telling my parents, I just felt like I'm not carrying around this thing anymore. Like it's out in the open. 
 
 They know, I don't think I owe anybody to tell them the details. I don't feel like I need to. But it feels really good to just be able to be like this is what happened. It's not, I don't need to be labeled by it. It's an experience that happened was not good. Do not recommend, do not do not. But it has the process dealing after it has made me need to. But it feels really good to just be able to be like this is what happened. It's not, I don't need to be labeled by it. It's an experience that happened was not good. Do not recommend, do not do not. 
 
 But it has the process dealing after it has made me who I am today and just, I think I was really happy when you asked me to talk because I've been thinking about like how do I want to continue my work with helping others with this? What does that look like? So I'm glad that this, we were able to talk about this.

Yeah, me too. Thank you so much of course. And we look forward to talking with you all in the next episode. 

 Thank you so much for joining us for this episode on healing from sexual trauma. And I would like to share with you some upcoming news on February 22. I am running a master class called get the love you deserve and it's illuminating the four steps that l've used to moved from being in relationships that didn't fulfill me where I didn't have what I wanted and that's both in romantic situations and in work life, to living the life of my dreams, The life beyond my wildest dreams. I have to say I'm having just so much fun playing me being me. It's like work is play and life has a richness and joy beyond my wildest imagination. So I want to share those steps with you. They'll be grounding meditation, very powerful grounding meditation and practices and a whole lot of wonderful resources and I'm really delighted to make this offering. So again February 22, that's noon, eastern standard time. And you can find a link in my bio on IG @vanessaalbury or @vanessaalburyofficial to sign up. 
 
 So thank you for joining us. Please do remember to share this episode with three people. Make sure one is assist gender man please, so that we can keep this conversation rolling. And share your thoughts in the comments wherever you listen to podcasts. And I look forward to talking to you again in the next episode. 
 
 Be well.